EP 22 The Board of Peace got Bored of Peace (audio feed)

Welllllll. That whole peace thing didn't last very long did it? Did it ever start? Who is to say. Us, that's who, and you too. But let's talk about it eh?

Love, 

Comrade Nephew Odysseas 

Catch up with us at ComradeUnclePod.com
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Video available on YouTube

Transcript

Odysseas Ladopoulos (00:15)
So starting, all right, we've got it. ⁓ Hello, welcome back. ⁓ We are doing our inaugural live stream and I'm here with ⁓ my mother brother. He's one bad mother brother. He's my uncle, he's my comrade. He's a all the time doctor. Sometime.

something. Troublemaker. ⁓ Yeah, no shit. don't know. mean, it's ⁓ we're as we'll talk about here in a minute. are entering a sort of Wilsonian era. You don't want to wind up like what's his name? You know, the Eugene Debs, you know, they threw him in prison for opposing World War one. jail prison. Yeah. I mean, you know.

AJ Layon (00:43)
Alright, there you go. Trying to make good trouble, but sometimes it doesn't work very well.

Inhale. Well, well. Yep. It happened. It

Odysseas Ladopoulos (01:11)
I know, right? As long as we don't speak out against, ⁓ you know, the ruling class, we should be fine. Or dare to run for president. Yeah, right. The criminalization of... ⁓ Yeah, so I mean, we've seen some crazy shit lately. It got pretty wild since the last time we talked, huh?

AJ Layon (01:21)
or dare to criticize Israel or dare to criticize the Knesset. ⁓

Well, I think so. we are obviously in, well, our countries are in a shooting war. It's not we, because most Americans don't support this war. Most Brits don't support this war. Most French don't support this war. ⁓ It is an illegal war of aggression. I'd like to talk about that in a few minutes. But there's a couple of things I'd actually like to start out with.

Remember when we first started this podcast, it was during COVID, we started talking about medical issues and medical slash political because you can't separate the two, unfortunately, or in reality. And then we started talking about other issues that were really more political foreign policy, stuff like that. Things that we knew about, but I consider myself, think, with an expert in intensive care medicine, I'm pretty good with it. I think I know a little bit about public health, infectious disease, but obviously,

Odysseas Ladopoulos (02:14)
Yeah, right. Yeah.

AJ Layon (02:32)
I'm not a foreign policy guy and I'm not a historian, although I've read a fair amount of history and continue to do so sort of extracurricularly. But I think it matters that in this situation that we take kind of a step look, there are others, and frankly, there are others that I think we ought to, whose podcasts we ought to append to this podcast, who are really much, much better in terms of the

Odysseas Ladopoulos (02:55)
Yeah.

AJ Layon (03:00)
details of foreign policy and military policy and all that stuff. But I think it's legit, even though those others have more experience and data to sort of broadly look at the big picture. I think ask the question, which I know you and I've talked about, and I've talked about with my friend and comrade and wife, as well as others, are we on the cusp of World War III? the issue is not to be

Odysseas Ladopoulos (03:22)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. All right.

AJ Layon (03:27)
to be alarmist or frightened people. But frankly, this is alarming. This is frightening. I read Barbara Tuckman's, I'm sure others have too, The Guns of August, details in intricate detail how Europe sort of sleepwalked its way into World War I. And then our colleague and friend and comrade ⁓ Boaventura de Sousa Santos just

Odysseas Ladopoulos (03:35)
it is.

Yeah... Mm-hmm.

AJ Layon (03:57)
published an article this morning, excuse me, in Z, asking, are we on the cusp of World War III? And he argues, he argues, and he says, I hope I'm wrong, and I know people will be angry at me for saying this, but I think the answer is yes. And, you know, this is, mean,

Odysseas Ladopoulos (03:57)
Yeah.

Very interesting, yeah.

AJ Layon (04:20)
This brings up a host of issues. Number one, we live in a nuclear age and if World War III actually comes, nuclear weapons will be used. If nuclear weapons will be used, we face extinction. Number two, even if nuclear weapons aren't used, given the climate emergency, which by the way is utterly being ignored, certainly in this country, but I would say because of these wars, Ukraine, here, Congo, ⁓ Sudan,

Odysseas Ladopoulos (04:41)
Right.

AJ Layon (04:50)
It's being ignored by essentially everybody. I mean, we run the risk of an extinction event based upon that. ⁓ so this is, is World War III coming possibly? But we've got a host of sort of ⁓ existential host. We've got at least two existential threats above us. And so the question is, is it imminent? So what do we do? How do you interpret this? And just as,

Odysseas Ladopoulos (04:57)
Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. Eminent.

AJ Layon (05:19)
as when October 7th Norman Finkelstein, who is a historian, a man who I respect greatly, sort of had to look to history to try and sort out what he thought it meant. And he looked to Nat Turner's slave rebellion. I think in this situation, I think, oh, it's not perfect. I think we look to the Spanish Republic, 1930, 1936. And the politics of that

Odysseas Ladopoulos (05:35)
Right.

AJ Layon (05:49)
situation to sort of make some sense of where we are now. And if that doesn't sort of ring true to people, it is a little bit more complex perhaps in that turner in a certain way. mean, Spain, 1931, well, Spain in 3133, after the king was basically fled the country, the Republic was declared, 31 through roughly 33, there was a left leaning coalition that tried to remake Spain.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (06:03)
Sort of, yeah.

AJ Layon (06:17)
Then there was a reaction from 33 to about 35, 33, 35, where right wing forces came to power. And they really, there's some controversy whether they were really pro-fascist or just very conservative and pro-clerical. I mean, I don't mean to, again, I'm not doing justice to the whole argument, but, and I know you know some of it. But, and then in 36, there was another election where the left just won the Communist Party of Spain,

Odysseas Ladopoulos (06:38)
Yeah, well... Yeah.

AJ Layon (06:46)
party, the Socialist Workers Party of Spain, the Pum Trotskyist and Catalonian leftist one. And then shortly thereafter, ⁓ there's the mutiny of the Spanish military and the Spanish Civil War begins. Where would we have stood on that? might have, thinking to look at this now, we might have said, well, before the Civil War starts, we might've said, well, I just don't like the Catalonian leftists. Or we might've said, I just don't like

Odysseas Ladopoulos (06:53)
Mm-hmm.

The Anarchists.

AJ Layon (07:17)
the anarchists, mean, whatever. mean, I mean, not evil, not, but there's not like cup of tea. Once the fighting starts and it's fascism on the one side versus popular unity government, United Front on the other side, two different things, sorry, United Front. I think we have to make a choice. I don't think it's possible. And Boa in his article today alludes to this. It's no longer possible.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (07:35)
Mm-hmm.

AJ Layon (07:44)
to sort of sit in the sidelines and sort of analyze what's going on. Well, I like this, but I don't like that. And therefore, in the context of the present, listen, I am and have considered myself a leftist, a socialist for as long as I've been a sentient human. So that's about 50 years. I'm 74. Yes, much longer because you're a youngster. There you go. And in diapers too.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (07:52)
Yeah.

longer than I have.

when I was knee-high to a grasshopper. ⁓

AJ Layon (08:14)
And I knew you then.

I mean, I'm not a clericalist. I don't believe in religious states. I mean, don't really believe in religion. But at this moment in time, at this moment in time, there is no question on which side I stand. And that is with the Iranian government, the Iranian people, and their allies. Again, and it's not because, you know, it's...

Odysseas Ladopoulos (08:24)
Hmm.

Right.

AJ Layon (08:38)
It's because one must make a decision on which side one stands. It is not the side of the UK, the EU, the United States, my government, sorry, or Israel for sure. It's just not, it can't be. Those guys are, to use the terminology of ⁓ the Nicaraguan Revolution, enemies of humanity. you know, I mean, we don't need to rehash everything that's been done, but before this, ⁓

Odysseas Ladopoulos (08:49)
Right.

AJ Layon (09:06)
present war, and it is a war, began, we had the Gaza genocide. Every political ⁓ human rights organization in the world, including Israeli ones, say it's a genocide. It's a genocide, by definition. I mean, we had Israel bombing Syria and Lebanon and Gaza over and over and over. We had the United States back in January, I believe it was, am I right, the 12-day war, negotiating.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (09:12)
Right.

It just is. Right.

AJ Layon (09:36)
with the Iranians about their nuclear program, is, mean, Iran is ⁓ signatory to the nonproliferation treaty. They have said they will not, they don't want, unlike Israel, who does have nuclear weapons, they don't want a bomb, they don't want a weapon. And in the middle of the negotiations, Israel and United States attack Iran. After 12 days, the Israelis need a ceasefire because they're getting pummeled. The Iranians,

Odysseas Ladopoulos (09:45)
Right. Unlike Israel.

Right.

AJ Layon (10:06)
stopped their decision. People have criticized it, but they didn't. The Iranians began to negotiate with the United States again, again, until during negotiations when the Omani intermediary said that the conditions that the US wanted for the nuclear enrichment, not weaponry, they don't have nuclear weapons.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (10:20)
Right.

Right.

AJ Layon (10:36)
than that.

US and Israel attacked them again, again, another sneak attack. And so the question, so there's several questions that come to mind or issues that I think need to be addressed. And I should have said this at the beginning, when I talked with my friend and wife and comrade this morning about that we were going to do this, she said, make sure you comment on the lives of humans. I mean, and you I have had this conversation before in brief, when we've talked about forgiveness.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (10:42)
Anyway, right, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Good point.

AJ Layon (11:09)
You know, as long as we're alive, any mistakes we've made, we can seek forgiveness. Every human life, Israeli, children, men, women, even soldiers, has value. No question, Iranian, men, women, children, Palestinian. I mean, I just want to make sure this is the good guy, bad guy thing.

kind of works in this situation because I think, frankly, the United States and Israel are clearly on the bad side here. But individuals, even people you and I would disagree with vehemently, as long as they're alive, they can change. And I think that matters. And it needs to be said now at the opening of this. And I want to say it again when we're done. It matters. And again, it's not to be mushy, anything, but it's to say, you know, all we've got is all we have is one another.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (11:57)
Yeah.

AJ Layon (12:06)
And when we're political enemies, we can figure things out if we're still alive. Anyway, I just want to make sure.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (12:12)
Well, mean, you know,

speaking speaking of earlier world wars or whatever, that's, you know, it's an interesting contrast to look at the approach of the of the Soviet forces as they ⁓ as they, you know, drove towards Berlin. And that was a much more, ⁓ you know, organized and. ⁓

approach to it than the Americans had who were just kind of, you know, being destructive and looting and stuff. But the line from the heads of the Soviet ⁓ military was, we're liberating these people. And I think that that's informative. mean, hopefully we don't get to another, you know, like catastrophic world war just like that. But it is, you know, I mean, as much as it's comforting to think of people in terms of

existential evil. Well, first off, not everybody's like that. Okay, yeah, mean, you know, just like Nazi Germany, Israel is like Nazified and a lot of their population is fully psychotic. But stopping them is liberating them, you know what mean? They're prisoners. Go ahead, go ahead.

AJ Layon (13:19)
Well, let me just interrupt you for moment. Sorry, let me interrupt you for a Let me interrupt you

for a moment. I'm sorry. Because it's not just a matter of making the assertion of that. The last poll that I saw showed that it was the, I can't remember the name of the poll, Israel Democratic Poll. can't quite remember. 87 % of Israelis polled said, ethnically cleanse Gaza. And 47 % said, kill everybody there.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (13:33)
Yes, be specific.

Mm-hmm.

Good point.

Right.

AJ Layon (13:48)
So this is a big deal. ⁓ those guys have been, I mean, literally, think, brainwashed, nonetheless. And forgive me if I didn't mean to interrupt. But I think even that group can be salvaged, can be saved, can become human again. And you know, on all sides of this, there are elements like that. There are elements like

Odysseas Ladopoulos (13:57)
Right. Right. No, no, no. I'm really glad you said it. You're absolutely right. Embarrassing.

Alright.

AJ Layon (14:18)
And so I want us to make that statement at the beginning. And I think it does matter. So we sort of talked briefly about where we would fall with this 1933-36 and where I think, least I think I fall today. It makes me slightly uncomfortable, ⁓ not from political standpoint, but I mean, we have my.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (14:23)
Yeah, good point.

Right.

I know exactly

what you mean.

AJ Layon (14:47)
Well, know,

I mean, my father was on the USS Yorktown during World War II. My mother was a Coast Guard woman. My son, our son, my wife's son is a former Marine. mean, yes, I mean, is, it is a challenge, but politically, it's as clear as it can possibly be. And you know, and so what's happened? Again, before the start of this war, Gaza, the West Bank, Syria, Lebanon.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (15:01)
My cousin.

AJ Layon (15:17)
and Iran all attacked, yet somehow Israel was the victim. And now the US and Israel are once again attacking Iran. what were the first, and again, remember, this is not, in that sense, this is not World War I, where you've got artillery units that, you know, with no GPS or nothing fancy. The first people attacked, the first people killed, I think it's now 140 children, children.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (15:20)
Right.

Yeah.

right

it's 153 at the last count that I saw

AJ Layon (15:47)
Was it not 153?

So this is, again, it brings up the issue of genocide versus war in Ukraine.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (15:54)
Yeah.

Right, yeah,

what my uncle is talking about is ⁓ kind of in the opening salvo of the surprise attack by Israel and the US on Iran. They bombed a school, a girls' school, and just killed a bunch of children and also a bunch of hospitals. So I mean, this shouldn't be a surprising MO. Please continue, sorry. Yeah.

AJ Layon (16:12)
School.

No,

it's not. It's not. mean, again, just to sort of to lay and make the sort of discrimination. Ukraine, it's a war. The number of child casualties is if I can't, I don't have the citation at the tip of my fingers, but it's something like 0.15 or 0.2 % children killed in that war. In Gaza, it's 38 to 40%. This is purposeful in Gaza.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (16:48)
Yes.

AJ Layon (16:49)
However one feels about Ukraine and Russia and everything leading up to it, that's a slightly separate issue. But it is a war where there are most unfortunately civilian casualties and most unfortunately some of them are kids. It's not so in Gaza and it's not so it appears from the opening salvo in ⁓ Iran. Yes, I neglected to mention, which I'm glad you did, hospitals are being bombed as well. Remember what happened to hospitals in Gaza when those were bombed.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (17:11)
Yeah.

Right.

AJ Layon (17:17)
in which when neonates were left in incubators to die alone. So it so this is inhuman. And I mean, the only way I can conceive of this, the only way this makes any sense, it doesn't make any sense, but the only way I can use the set wrap my head around this is that is that the Israeli military and society views Iranians just like they view

Odysseas Ladopoulos (17:26)
Yeah.

Ha

AJ Layon (17:47)
Palestinians as something less than human. And that's the only way they can behave. So, ⁓

Odysseas Ladopoulos (17:51)
Absolutely.

AJ Layon (17:57)
Since the opening sambos, Iran has taken a number of actions, some of which have been criticized. They've bombed Kuwait and Bahrain and the UAE and Qatar, but they haven't just bombed. What they have done is they bombed American bases there. And before all this started, the foreign ministry and Professor Mohammed Amarandi, Professor of Comparative Literature at University of Tehran said,

Odysseas Ladopoulos (18:15)
All right.

is

he a comp-let guy? I didn't realize that. My mother is a comp-let professor. That's why we kind of... There, yeah, yeah.

AJ Layon (18:28)
I think he's a conflict guy.

She was a chairwoman of Trump's attack. You may even know the guy. But they

said, this is what will happen. If you've got bases, then those bases are used to attack us. Sorry. So either ask the Americans to leave, or if this actually happens, we're going to hit those bases. And they've hit those bases. According to the military department, I don't know which department, the department, the military spokesperson in Iran.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (18:54)
Right.

AJ Layon (19:02)
The USS Abe Lincoln was hit by four missiles. The USS denied that. And there's 560 US troops already killed. I don't know. I have no way to verify that. But I think that, but again, not to get into those details, I think the thing that I want us to focus on, if we could in the next 20 minutes is what actually is this? I mean, yes, it could be a prelude to World War III. This is a disaster. what...

actually is this? And so what I did this morning, this appears to me to be an illegal war of aggression, just like the Iraq war, actually just like the Vietnam war, an illegal war of aggression. So I went through and I said, well, the only way that makes sense of that is if I sort of know what the UN Charter says, because that's what's supposed to guide all of us. So I went back and read the UN Charter from 26 June, 1945.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (19:38)
Yeah. Korean.

Yeah.

AJ Layon (19:58)
that was approved in San Francisco, California.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (20:01)
A little light reading.

AJ Layon (20:02)
A little light reading. Actually, it's quite good. But there's a couple of things I want to just mention about this. this will get a little hope not tendentious, a little long. The preamble is, and this can be found in, I included this in the email I sent to you that we can append to this talk. The preamble is basically anti-war, pro-equality and respect for law. They say in the preamble, we the people of the UN have determined

to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, to reaffirm our faith in the equal rights of men and women and nations, large and small, and to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained. We bring this document forward. We bring the UN forward. And then as for the ends,

And these are anti-aggressive ends, the ends of the, to ensure that the acceptance of the principles and institutions, an institution of methods that armed force shall not be used, save in the common interest. So the opening words recognize the scourge of two major wars in the 20th century, the beginning of the 20th century, and the untold sorrow, the untold horror.

that those wars brought onto us. We need to do something differently. And then purposes and principles. Chapter one, this is divided into multiple chapters, article one, that the purpose of the UN is to maintain international peace and security, take collective measures for prevention and removal of threats to peace, the suppression of acts of aggression, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, ⁓ and just settlements.

of international disputes or situations which might lead to the breach of the peace. Again, if there's a problem, we have to be able to solve it. That's Article 1.1. Article 2.4, this ⁓ is quite important, all members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against any state or in any other manner that's inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (22:15)
Mm-hmm ⁓

AJ Layon (22:28)
Chapter seven, and I'm obviously jumping, talks about self-defense. Chapter seven, action with respect to threats to the peace, breaches of the peace, and acts of aggression. Self-defense, article 51. Nothing in the charter impairs the right of self-defense if an armed attack occurs against a member of the UN.

Self-defense, not in a war of aggression, self-defense. Measures taken by members in exercising the right of self-defense shall be immediately reported to the United Nations Security Council. And in fact, Iran has requested an emergency meeting of the Security Council. They're doing exactly this. Article 41, sorry, ⁓ Article 41, I just talked about Article 51, I jumped backwards. That basically says that the UN, only the UN can,

Odysseas Ladopoulos (22:55)
Right.

AJ Layon (23:20)
in lieu of the use of force, imposed sanctions. The reason I wanted to just touch on that, it may not seem pertinent to what we're talking about now precisely, but given the literally economic war being waged against Iran before this war started, and the economic war being waged against Cuba, it's important to mention that the United Nations Charter does talk about ⁓ coercive measures short of war, including sanctions, but those can only be imposed

only be imposed legally by the UN, not unilaterally by member nations, which is what the United States has done in Cuba and Iran and so forth and so on. Just an important point. ⁓ There's other issues as well about self-governing territories. The bottom line is that the UN picked up the mandated territories from the League of Nations and they explicitly state

that any decisions made have to be made in the interest of the inhabitants of those territories. Again, just I'm not talking about Iran precisely, but we're talking now about Palestine. ⁓ Chapter 15 is on the International Court of Justice, which the United States rejects, which Israel rejects. All member states are parties to the statute of the International, statutes of the International Court of Justice, and will comply with their decisions. And if they don't, if they don't.

United Nations Security Council has to bring into account. also in Chapter 16, miscellaneous, in the event of a conflict between obligations that members of the United Nations are mandated to follow under the Charter of the United Nations, or obligations are mandated to follow under some other treaty that's not part of the UN, the UN Charter wins out. That's also important.

And in the context of that...

There are people who have said, well, know, the UN is garbage. We don't care about the UN. But Article 6 of the Constitution of the United States, which is the, one hopes, the ultimate document in terms of our laws and what we're supposed to be doing states that all treaties that are entered into and ratified, and we ratified this in 1945. It is a treaty that we ratified.

All treaties that we enter into are laws of the land. So Trump and his minions are not simply breaking international law by attacking Iran. They're breaking US law by attacking. And what's disturbing, I mean, there are many things disturbing, right? Many things are disturbing. But what's, I mean, where do I start with disturbing? Well, how about the fact that the Democratic Party and its leaders, Schumer and Jeffries,

have done nothing, absolutely nothing to make sure, worse than nothing, to make sure that the law of the land is followed. Now, I mean, it's fine. I mean, it's not fine. Of course it's not fine. If what they want to do is say really what it is is the rule of the jungle, law of the jungle, the strongest rule, and that's the end of it, guys. That's just fine. But does that mean if someone comes to my door and I don't like them, I just get to shoot them or something stupid like that? I mean,

Odysseas Ladopoulos (26:25)
these fucking guys. Worse than nothing.

Hahaha!

AJ Layon (26:51)
mean, what is this, you know, if you take this down as logical sequence of it, this gets really horrible, really fast. And so it is quite disturbing in that regard. And finally, I think finally, at least from my standpoint, finally, you know, the United States, the United States, France, China, Britain, USSR, were the original five signatories, the Treaty of 1943, and then the UN Charter.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (26:53)
Right.

AJ Layon (27:20)
And the question is, do those signatories have any special duties, not just rights, but duties, because they were the, the co-conveners of the UN? That's not the right term, but something like that. And it turns out, and it turns out, I looked this up too, that they do. Their key responsibilities are to maintain peace and security through collective, not unilateral action, to refrain from the use of force or threats of the use of force.

to fulfill obligations to the UN, including paying for the UN, to promote human rights and to support UN actions. Well, those key responsibilities have been utterly ignored by the United States for a good while. And in this situation, because we're talking about this situation, they're being utterly ignored. And then there's special responsibilities, special responsibilities in addition to key responsibilities that the original signatories

Odysseas Ladopoulos (28:16)
special.

AJ Layon (28:20)
It's actually five plus 46. ⁓ First one was Poland, but it was 50 plus Poland, 51. But they were the big five. Their special responsibilities of the original signers were to formalize the UN structure, make sure it gets ratified in each country, make sure that the primary security roles, the five permanent members, ⁓ get assumed, make sure that trustee responsibilities for self-governance are followed. This, of course, was not done.

and uphold the 1942 declaration. The 1942 declaration was simply that there won't be a separate peace with the ⁓ Nazis or the Japanese. So we are in a situation today where, although it's a little hard to get the information, certainly if you listen to CNN, MS Now or whatever it's called, CBS or any of the other sort of press, including the New York Times, Washington Post.

It's hard to know what's going on. These are really propaganda rags. I'm just so sorry to say. Howard Fast, whose novels I've read with great enjoyment, that was the story of Lola Gregg, think it is, ⁓ opens with a guy who thought he could make sense of the entire world if he only read every morning, the New York Times from front to back. It's a wonderful book. And I said, I know that feeling. It doesn't work.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (29:24)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Ha ha ha.

Yeah.

AJ Layon (29:49)
There are, Iran is being hit hard. There's no question about it. And there are dead civilians. Israel is being hit hard and there are dead civilians. There are a handful of people in Israel who I love, who I've known for years and who I love. Several of them, as I've said before, no longer speak to me because I do not completely support, fact, at all support what they've done in Gaza and what they're doing here. That's fine. I still love them.

There are some newer people that I've come to know and through their writing and talking to them ⁓ that are historians and I worry greatly about them. There are people that I know in Iran, same thing, same thing. Human beings who as long as they're alive have the potential to change and figure out right from wrong. My worry is obviously that there won't be time for this.

that we're going to be drawn into a bigger and bigger conflict. The British are now threatening to something, an aircraft carrier. The French are sending an aircraft carrier. The Israelis appear to be being pummeled. I fear they will use a nuclear weapon. Once that's done, I think all bets are off. The only way this is solved is by the, actually the United Nations, where is Antonio Guterres?

Odysseas Ladopoulos (30:55)
Yeah.

AJ Layon (31:14)
Where is he? He is lost in space. is nowhere. He has utterly fallen.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (31:16)
Yeah, tell

me Boa's line on this and I think we both agree.

AJ Layon (31:22)
Boas said, Boas' line on this

is there are five, I don't have his paper in front of me, but there are three or four things we can do. One is to demand the resignation of Antonio Gutierrez, because he has utterly failed. The second is ⁓ boycott, divest, and sanction Israel. The third is, ⁓ third and fourth, I no longer remember, I can't remember, but they'll be in the article we have. I think it may be to attach it, but but.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (31:26)
Three things, I think.

Right.

Yeah, yeah, we'll attach it to this.

AJ Layon (31:48)
to demonstrate for Iran just as we demonstrated for Gaza. That's number three. And there's a fourth one that I can't remember right now. But I think that's what we can do as individuals, as a collective. It's, know, it's... Okay. Go ahead.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (32:01)
⁓ here here i got it i got here we might as well read it here it's

it is ⁓ and international petition asking u n secretary ⁓ general antonio gudetis to resign immediately in view of the high probability of war and the u n's inability to prevent it or unwillingness ⁓

Two, take to the streets in defense of Cuba and Iran, as we did in defense of Palestine. Three, organize protest in front of the US and Israeli embassies he's talking, and EU representatives he's writing from Portugal. ⁓ So hence the embassies and stuff. ⁓ But ⁓ we could do the Israeli embassy. ⁓

AJ Layon (32:27)
Thank

Odysseas Ladopoulos (32:45)
Anyway, ⁓ four, considering that the most repugnant, though not the weakest link in the US-EU-Israel triad is Israel, boycott Israel through the BDS movement. So, yeah.

AJ Layon (32:57)
Yeah,

I mean, that we can do. And again, you know, it's, there's some, mean, we could, as we sit here tonight talking about this, there are missiles flying. My understanding, again, not a military guy, no. My understanding is that the US has adequate munitions for a brief war. My understanding is that the United States has already asked Italy to go to Iran to say, shall we talk about?

Odysseas Ladopoulos (33:01)
Right.

AJ Layon (33:26)
negotiations in Iran has told them to eat shit and die. Forgive my vulgarity. They were bamboozled. They're not going to be fooled a second time. ⁓ Israel is being pummeled and they will in return attempt to pummel ⁓ Iran. ⁓ What seems to be happening with the attack on children and hospitals is what we have seen by Israel is what we've seen in

Odysseas Ladopoulos (33:29)
Interesting.

AJ Layon (33:55)
in Gaza, so we can expect more of that. think the only, what is the solution? mean, there is a solution. It's a political solution. We've talked about this over and over and over. It was the solution of the Palestine Communist Party in 1947, made up or 40, I think 47, 46, made up of both Jewish Palestinians and Arab Palestinians and Palestinian Arabs, which was a secular democratic state.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (34:03)
Yeah.

AJ Layon (34:23)
There were people within the State Department of the United States who thought that was the best option. Zionism wouldn't be on it. So the only solution, I think, is two people on one land, a democratic, secular state with equal rights for all. And there's going to be horrific truth and reconciliation committees that have to be had. And some kind of, and I hesitate to use the word because it has a bad connotation, but some kind of reeducation. I don't know how you do it. I don't know how...

Odysseas Ladopoulos (34:27)
Alright.

AJ Layon (34:53)
and maybe it didn't happen at all. After World War II, how were Nazis, confirmed Nazis, who hated Jews, thought that they were just inferior and Slavs, inferior, how were they reeducated to make them see, so that they could see the error of their ways? I mean, you can say, you can't do it, just kill them all. No, I mean, that doesn't, we don't wanna do that stuff. But how do you, no, no, no, it's not, no, no,

Odysseas Ladopoulos (35:09)
Yeah.

No, that's not what the... I mean,

if you're the US and the Western powers, then you just hire them to suppress the communists. ⁓ If you're... Part of what got us here. ⁓

AJ Layon (35:23)
Well, yes.

Yes, part of what Scott is there. But so again, the term

reeducation, it's got a, it's left a bad taste in many people's, I don't know, I don't know a better word exactly, but something, something, not humiliating, something.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (35:36)
No, no.

De-radicalization, I don't know. you know, there's,

it's, yeah, no, I mean, I think there's two parts to it. One is, you know, there's the whole line, no justice, no peace or whatever. You can't have peace without justice. So I think part of it was ⁓ after, you know, I really like the Soviet approach, actually. ⁓ After they've liberated the camps and stuff, they hold fair trials ⁓ in front.

of the victims of the people.

that as the jury, the former concentration camp inmates were the jury. And they let some people off, some kind guards and stuff like that. So then there's the period of justice. then afterwards there is, I mean, what looks like is often held up as, this horrible oppressive authoritarian approach of the East German ⁓ Republic. ⁓ And that is, there's, like you said, it's reeducation.

de-Nazify, you can't just, they're not just gonna settle down and stop being Nazis. But, you know, for the vast majority of people, although of course there was a lot of people that were just kinda going along to get along, there's always that. And there were some people that were partisans and happy to be liberated, but you know, so there is a way. In other words, my point is, you know, when we talk about the day after,

you know, even if we're at the day before or maybe we're the day of, who knows. Maybe the day of now. Yeah. ⁓ It's that I think that that is I mean, you get justice and then you have to.

AJ Layon (37:13)
I think we're in the day out right now.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (37:27)
you know, ideologically reeducate people. ⁓ And you know, that's the capitalist world will call it, ⁓ you know, thought policing or something. But the fact is, ⁓ they had liberated a Germany that was full of Nazis. And you know, and that takes some undoing. Did they do it perfectly? Probably not. You know, it's impossible to.

AJ Layon (37:44)
Yeah, we're gonna do it.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (37:52)
to do things especially for the first time perfectly. ⁓ So, know, whatever. But you know, that's why this whole mystery.

AJ Layon (37:58)
But that's

how, I but in some sense, in some way, that's the vision, at least that I have, of how we might make this work. Because, you know, mean, there's just so much to be said, I mean, about all this. Where, I for all the faults that Iran has, it stood beside the Palestinian people and stands beside the Palestinian people. That matters. That matters. The Yemenis.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (38:04)
Right.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Right. Right.

AJ Layon (38:29)
as well. That matters. know, mean, the Hezbollah, which is not a country, it's just a political party, has significant power in Lebanon, but that matters. And all this talk about who's a terrorist and these are, you know, terrorism is the utilization of force to get your way politically. Well, if that's the case, Israel is the biggest terrorist on earth and the United States of America, my country, your country, is the biggest supporter of state terrorism on earth. I mean,

Odysseas Ladopoulos (38:31)
Yeah.

by far.

Yeah.

AJ Layon (38:58)
You know, know,

and Martin Luther King actually said that about 50 years ago, if I'm not mistaken, as did Malcolm X, and they were both right. So anyhow, we can unfortunately have to be gone.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (39:11)
Yeah, yeah, we gotta get

you out of here. Thank you so much for hopping on with me and doing our little test run. It seems like everything worked, we'll see, I don't know. we've been live the whole time. Live the whole time, 10 million people, hopefully, probably, maybe, either way it is recording and so. A dozen of people.

AJ Layon (39:21)
So we have been live and the 10 million people who normally watch us have watched us.

Either 10 or 10 million, one of the two.

Right. So, we make sure that the podcast part of this with the music in the middle, in the front, the middle and the end, right? Greek partisan, ⁓ El Pueblo Unido and Balachau. Can we get that, this is as fast as we can out because again, there's a.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (39:39)
No, no, it's good. I'm glad.

Yes.

Yep, yep, yep.

Yes.

AJ Layon (39:58)
This is all timely stuff. I know you're doing the yeoman's work on it. It's not me. All I do is sit here and talk. But thanks for doing it. But we need to get it out.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (40:01)
Sure.

⁓

Yeah, Absolutely. And the other thing I'll do is I'll throw those links that, ⁓ know, ⁓ Boa's awesome article, the charter, you know, had some, you know, whatever. We've got a few things. So read the show notes. All right.

AJ Layon (40:22)
Podcast we talked about yeah the podcast that we have that

these are I mean and and just for people who are Listening, I mean you look at that list of podcasts when you include you go. Holy sweet Jesus How did these guys they call themselves leftists, but they're listening to judge Napolitano I mean There are things where we would disagree with the good judge on but you know what on the issues of justice Palestine this war Israel he is right on the money and and and and so

Odysseas Ladopoulos (40:42)
Yeah.

Yeah.

AJ Layon (40:51)
all those guys and the guests that he has on and the other, and on the other podcasts as well. These are experts. They've got more fine detail. know, Jeff Sachs is on a bunch of them. mean, Jeff Sachs is just an interesting and amazingly thoughtful guy. There's a bunch of them. Scott Ritter, I mean, yeah. ⁓

Odysseas Ladopoulos (41:09)
Yeah, there's some good stuff, yeah. I

mean, I'd say just give it a listen because frankly, I don't know. It's good for the mind to... Well, and you know what, look. As a...

as now i mean these are people who approach things at least with a modicum of common sense not we might not agree about absolutely everything just like i don't agree ⁓ actually stop myself there i don't agree with a lot of you know

there's many groups ⁓ and some of them we can say ⁓ that we you know you be perfectly candid about and others we can't but the fact of the matter is you know you're Tucker Carlson's for example on this sort of issue are are you know there may be a lot of things that we disagree with ⁓ but ⁓ but this is like it is ⁓ it really is frankly an issue of common sense in some ways ⁓ you know of course there's the

AJ Layon (41:45)
Yes. ⁓

Odysseas Ladopoulos (42:14)
of capitalism, grind up the small people, feed the babies to the billionaires, you know, ⁓ but ⁓ you know, the common sense thing, normal human decency, ⁓ since that you don't bomb a hospital or a school full of children, you know, it's just not, and it doesn't take a, you know, it doesn't take a,

AJ Layon (42:21)
Yeah, it was fun.

or girls schools.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (42:40)
you know, Marxist-Leninist or whatever to see that and be horrified and, you know, to have it offend your humanity. And ⁓ one thing that I'm reminded of is Mao, I'm not sure the quote, or I won't even quote it, I'll paraphrase, but Mao had a good line about this is that communists should position themselves, leftists, insert yourself here, you should position yourself as the side of common sense.

⁓ because it is a rational common sense thing to not want to slaughter civilians or to destroy the climate or you know what I mean? So it's like these sorts of things, it's gonna be a wide, I hate the term of tense, whatever, but you know, mean.

AJ Layon (43:28)
United Front. United Front.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (43:28)
There's humanity on the one side

and inhumanity on the other. mean, I'm on the side of whoever's on the side of humanity, at least for this. Maybe we can argue about it later, but once we've stopped World War III. Yes, yes, right. All right, I love you, man. Of course, of course, take care of yourself. Love you, uncle, bye.

AJ Layon (43:40)
We have to be alive long enough to argue about it if we don't fix it. Okay, I'm gonna jump off. ⁓ Thank you. Take care, baby. Love you, sweetheart.

Okay, I'm gonna leave. I'm gonna leave.

Odysseas Ladopoulos (43:57)
go. Alright guys so that's that. ⁓ You know I'll try and do more live streams like this or whatever in the future. Yeah it's kind of short notice we just kind of wanted to test it out and jump on ⁓ stuff. So I hope you guys enjoy this whoever is listening to it later and thank you for listening. ⁓

You know, hang in there. ⁓ It is crazy making this situation and kind of where we found ourselves. I think there's a lot of parallels to the last two World Wars. ⁓ know, Trump is very, very much like Woodrow Wilson. And then you've got, you know, this other, you know, which reminds us of World War I and this world planet hurtling towards

you know insanity and and monsters in humanity and you know you got your world war two portion which is truly like you know i'm reminded of of ⁓ how ⁓ you know the soviets had to kinda i mean you look at china right like and

I think for a lot of us, China and Russia, we see them and we're like, ⁓ do something, just step in. They're gonna come for you next. Don't be split off piecemeal. But the fact of the matter is, mean, like for example, during World War II, the Soviets knew that they were not in a position yet to confront the confrontation, the Nazis, the confrontation that was coming. It was right around the corner. ⁓

And so they pulled back and tried to rapidly industrialize and build up capacity for that confrontation. think that you have to look at the actions of China, who has always been very supportive of Palestine, going right back to the beginning with Mao, mean, the beginning of the communist period. ⁓

very forceful, forcefully ⁓ advocating for Palestinian humanity. ⁓ anyway, so you kind of like, like that decision with the whatever, the approving this board of peace, or well.

abstaining from the vote for the this nonsense Board of Peace. ⁓ By the way alternate ⁓ alternate alternate episode title maybe a full episode title we'll see ⁓ is that ⁓ the Board of Peace sure got bored of peace fast ⁓ so yeah anyway whatever ⁓ parallels parallels abound ⁓

But like our friend Boa says, ⁓ it's not like all hope is lost. There is things to do and we might as well do them. We gotta do them. It's the right thing to do. And when you do them, we will be standing right there shoulder to shoulder with you comrades because we love you and we appreciate you and you're awesome. ⁓

Shout out to our friends all over ⁓ and you know who you are. We appreciate you. ⁓ So hang in there and we will catch you on the flip side.