EP10: Election Catastrophe! Who will destroy America first? Biden? Trump?

Greetings and salutations comrades! Comrade Nephew Odysseas and Comrade Uncle Doctor Abraham Joseph Layon break this nightmare US election down for you. Will they agree? You'll have to listen and find out. Spoiler alert: everything sucks. 

Fear not stalwart comrade, you are not alone. We march shoulder to shoulder with you and whatever adversity we face, we will face it together. Forward to victory!  Huzzah! Huzzah! Huzzah! За Родину! За Палестину!

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Transcript

1:15:47

Welcome. Welcome back to Comrade Uncle. I'm here with my uncle. Comrade. Doctor Abraham. Joseph Lyon. and, And we are here to talk about a variety of things we wanted to do. Well, what do we want to talk about, Uncle Joe? Well, I thought we would, since we're, you know, we started this whole thing as a as more or less a keep up with Covid blog, podcast thing, but it was branched out because obviously the world changes. Covid is still a problem. Health care issues are hugely problematic, certainly in the United States. Hugely problematic. Tens of thousands, tens of thousands of bankruptcies because of, medical bills. just, just a grotesque system which, I have to say, I've been part of for 45 years. but I thought we would talk to you a little bit just because, of the sort of intersectionality of health care, the war on Gaza, the Israeli war on Gaza, and the protests on several American campuses, as well as the whole issue of voting. We love intersectionality here. It is. It is. That's right. So the last data that I've seen and these numbers are are are reasonable, but they're approximations. The, the Hasbro and even the US government. our government. Also has vast. Well, this is true argues that the Gaza ministry of health, Palestinian Ministry of Health numbers are inaccurate. That's the best data we have. Is that. That's utter nonsense. Utter nonsense. The Lancet just published, 2 or 3 weeks ago, an article looking at the data. And it was as it stands, it was possible to be there are probably, if anything, significant underestimates of dead and dead for sure. we'll get you. Who knows? but since every single hospital has been, attacked by the Israelis, bombed, most of them are marginally functional at best. the blockade has been a blockade, not just of, food and water and so forth, but medications, anesthetic agents, dressings, surgical scissors and so forth. there are likely to be the deaths and injuries that are likely to be higher when this is all some at the end. And of course, because of that, because of the blockade, even though now there are there is more, aid getting in. But because of the blockade, the next batch, the big batch of deaths, even if all fighting was to stop tomorrow, would be related to, malnutrition, starvation and, infectious complications. There is some, the number may be off ever so slightly. Some 250,000 pounds, I believe it was pounds of solid waste that is un dealt with since the Israelis have bombed. sewage. sewage handling things. And of course, there's no electricity and of course, no water. So this is it's hugely problematic. The, the roughly there's a 34,000 deaths, of which about half of them are most of those are noncombatants. Notwithstanding what the Israeli say. Most of them are noncombatants, and at least half of them are women and children. Now, I sort of don't even like that. But construction women and children, what does that mean? I mean, men somehow aren't innocent. No. Right. It's. But basically civilians. Right? But the thought of something like 13 to 15,000 little kids being murdered by this Israeli state with the assistance act of assistance of our government is simply unbearable. Supervision. Oversight. I've heard, you know, that's a very good. oversight mandate. Initially it was. We're not, complicit. They were complicit. But no, Biden and his government are are actively involved in genocide. They really should be brought to The Hague. That really is I mean, it sounds, you know, I mean, I mean, listen, you know, I'm a I'm a 72 year old person. I mean, I am not a young, wild eyed radical. I mean, maybe once I was, but but but what is it that I. But, you know, if law is to mean anything, if rules are to mean anything, then the rules, the law against genocide has to be has to be held up. And and both the Israeli leadership and the American leadership have to be held accountable for genocide. Genocide, 34,000 deaths, some 76,000 injuries. Right? So casualties of something like 110 115,000. Another 8000, perhaps that number is from the Ministry of Health. I have no idea how they came up with that of people missing. And maybe it's just reported because they did. The Ministry of Health there did send out when there was access to electricity intermittently. It exists and the internet intermittently exists. Yeah. To people who intermittently have access to that stuff. A Google sheet asking them about their families and who's alive and who's going, who's missing. So maybe the missing comes from that, but there's some significant number of people buried in the rubble. and the place has been called a child's, a children's graveyard. And, there is no, to the best of my knowledge, there is no way on God's earth that Israel will ever overcome what they've done here. Ever, ever. They are. They are. They have a scarlet letter that will never go away. I don't know what else will happen, but it will not go away because of, I think because of this, because of this. there have been some really significant campus protests. in late 23, Cooper Union, George Washington University, Binghamton University, Drexel University, there were a number of events. More recently, Columbia, Yale, I think Harvard, maybe MIT, Columbia and Yale have gotten the most play recently. and of course, are just like, you know, again, if you do the math, being as old as I am, I was present during the Vietnam War. That was my war, and that was my generation's war. and in the in the protest, I don't want to overstate anything I did. I was not a mover and shaker. I was just a dumb ass. I should I shouldn't talk that way. So I was just a I was just a kid. I was a 20, 19, 20 and 21 year old kid. But I knew something was dreadfully wrong. And so we were at multiple protests against that war and other things that were going on. And in fact, the, the, at the time, the names thrown our way were significant, as you would expect, insults. No, no no no, no doubt about that. But later on, like later on 20 or 30 years later, yes, we were right. Wisconsin was a big place. UCSD, UC Berkeley, UCLA, I mean, all of throughout the throughout the country. A big place for protest. I mean, multiple I mean, across the country, everywhere. Everywhere. I don't want to start naming because I'd leave out ones that really matter, but which what's what's what's what's of some great significance, I think, is that Columbia there have been a Columbia University. There's been at least one professor of business, more than just him, but at least one who has called for bringing the National Guard onto campus. And if this professor of business had any knowledge of history or any knowledge of history at all, I think he'd be a little bit reticent. to, to to make that request. First of all. But, you know, maybe we should say because. Well, sure. Because what he, and the leadership of Columbia have said is that Jewish students are at risk on that campus from the protesters, even though the protesters, are led by Jewish students. Right. and of course, with, with the right wing has done and the actually the right wing and liberal liberal media liberals. I hate to with a broad brush smear everybody, but what they've done is, you know, as they've said, well, you know, when you say Palestine will be free or from the river to the sea, I promise I will be free on and on until you're actually what you're calling for is the murder of Jews, which is which is just utter, utter nonsense. You have to go out of your way, out of your way to make this nonsense up. it's simply not true. There is a huge, you know, I mean, there are Jewish brothers and sisters of all ages. Of all ages are involved in this struggle. It's a struggle for humanity. It is not a struggle against Jews. It is a struggle against an ideology, extreme right wing settler colonialist ideology, which is Zionism is an ideology. It is not Judaism. and so to call so to call for the National Guard to be brought onto campus. Is, is not just dangerous the police or the National Guard, frankly. But but you have to. All you have to do is pick up a book, any book, any book of history. And you and you remember what happened at Kent State and Jackson State when the National Guard were brought onto campus during the Vietnam War, students were murdered. Nobody was ever held accountable, murdered, murdered. It was horrific. Right. and that's what the call that people like that professor of business are making, could lead to. And and it's nonsense. I mean, it is utter, utter nonsense, right? Are there I mean, we have to be. We have to be, clear. Is there anti-Semitism unequivocally? Is there racism unequivocally? Is that what those demonstrations are about? Unequivocally, no. No. Could there be hangers on, people on the fringe who are racist creeps and so. Well, of course. And I mean, it's possible. I mean, of course, but but those protests are peaceful and people are speaking their mind and they're there's a unity between between Americans of who are Jewish, Americans, who are Palestinian foreign students. It's it is it is a remarkable. Right. Remarkable, group of people, you know, black, white. It reminds me of the old Communist Party. So I kind of got myself, you know, Communist Party, a mantra, black and white unite and fight, which, you know, in the time that that was announced by the, left of the United States Communist Party, among others, people would not would not, I mean, there was no unity between black and white. This I mean, whether it was union, whether it was in churches, whether it was in synagogues, you stayed away from that in the 30s, for sure. Even in the 60s. so it is in the best tradition of the progressive left movements, humane. I don't mean, I mean to to bring these groups together. Right. at Columbia, there have been arrests. Yes. Solidarity. Columbia. There's been arrests. I think most of the students have been released, but, you know, they've been threatened with being thrown out of school. A community city University of New York, the same Barnard, the same at Yale. There was apparently some significant, police violence. They sprayed them with chemicals or whatever, you know. Yeah, yeah, it's it's and, you know, and this. This is sound like. This occurs not just in the setting of, like, of course, in the setting of this Israeli war on Gaza. and of course, in that setting, but it also occurs in a setting of the Congress of the United States, specifically the House of Representatives, specifically, at least Stefanik's, who is a head of a chair of, one of the committees who's had hearings on antisemitism on campus and has, I mean, and I mean, in a way that's frankly and very she has made mincemeat of these university presidents, university presidents who are, I'm sure, good, solid, liberal, smart, thoughtful, but absolutely fine. You're in the benefit of a doubt, right? That's right. I mean, you know, my experience, I mean, this is just my my experience in university is university leadership is basically people who have nothing there. Their loyalty is not to the students or the faculty. It's to the donors or the board of, you know, board of regents, board of governors. Certainly the university of Florida. It was so and and believe me, nothing has changed. It's gotten worse. the whether it's Harvard, MIT or Columbia, those that leadership when Stefanik said, if somebody says death to Jews, is that allowed on campus? And rather than accept the premise, I think. Reject premise. That that had I been there would have I know what I said, but I think they know. Excuse me. That's not happening. What has happened on our campus is our students have said the following. And the things we've already talked about, and we support that. And will there be hurt feelings unequivocally? Would we allow any of our students to be harmed? Unequivocally, no. But but the university is a place for debate and argument. Respectful. One hopes always. Sometimes that respect breaks down and you've got to be a little bit careful. But but none of them were willing to do that. Not the head, not the leader of, of Harvard who was unfortunately asked to resign, not MIT. not what was the other one that was there? not Penn. and recently the, the president of Columbia was there and and again, really, really just did not do the job that should be done in terms of taking on Stefanik and her ilk and saying, no, your premise is wrong, right? You know, and laying out what universities are about, it's. It's cowardly and it's and it's, you know, it's more than just so it's cowardice, of course. And it's spineless. Of course. but it's not even smart. I mean, it's like these guys are nailing you to the wall. I mean, you know, and they're they're asking. I mean, some of the questions that they're asking are absurd questions. they are, you know, I listen to one senator, questioning a, Senator or congressperson. oh, actually, I'm sorry, he was a congressperson, I believe. I can't remember. yeah. Congressperson. I can't remember exactly where from, but the upshot was he was like, you know, God, God says to support, Israel. if you, you know, do you want, Columbia to be, to be cursed by God? this is, you know, this is a congressional hearing. What place does that have? I mean, what kind of question is that? And the the, you know, the the administrator, you know, backpedals. Oh, no, we wouldn't want that. I mean, are you kidding me? You're going to treat that like a real question, you know, and I'm not saying I'm not like, you know, turning up my nose at religion or anything or trying to disrespect religion. More power to the people who use that for good. right, right. I've known many good and kind and, and, you know, religious people who are fighters for social justice, blah, blah, blah. All that caveats out of the way. What place does that sort of question have in any discussion of, of, of protest or, you know, curse? My God, I mean, are you serious, man? That's that's how you. It has no place. It has absolutely no place. I mean, you know, again, who knows what again? this this is, I will never be in that position to be president of university. Asked this question, but but what I would hope I would say is, you know, which God are you talking about? Are you talking about the God of all he says? Are you talking about, the God of the Romans? Are you talking about the God of the Jews, the God of the Christians? Which God? Who is God? Which book? I mean, is it I mean books of mythology is what these books are. They are not. I don't believe the Word of God. They are. But but at their best. And you've touched them at their best. They do lead us in a direction of humanity and decency. There's no question in my mind about that. we I think we've talked about this in the past when I was a much younger man. working for the revolutionary government of Nicaragua, when Nicaragua was a revolutionary country, back in 1980, in 1981, the people that I worked with, some of them were Catholic workers, and they were the most impressive people I ever saw in my life, the most the did win places and did things that we didn't do. Wouldn't. We're afraid so. No, there's no question in my mind that you're. But but you're right about that. But you're right that that kind of a question has got no place and and the university president, the president I mean, to not be able to answer that. I just like, what are you thinking? Are you over lawyered like, do you have have too many lawyers told you what to say? But you have to just I mean, it sounds trite. Forgive me. You have to speak sometimes. Truth to power call bullshit. Bullshit. So, no, we're not doing this. That's. This is not what's happening, you know? And and so if this is a I mean, this is a significant attack. There's a significant attack. And the, on academic freedom, and the reason, the reason that I would, you know, support those university leaders, critically, but try to support them at least, is because they're they're the first line of defense, and academic freedom. And if they fall, then you know who's going to replace them, what's going to replace them in the best universities? and I believe, I believe Columbia has got has shared governance and the best universities are faculty senate. The faculty should and in Columbia's case has, I believe in a single use case to wade in and said this is unacceptable. It's unacceptable to bring police or anybody else. Excuse me, armed on our campus for what are essentially protests for justice, decency, humanity. and get in my way. It doesn't matter what it was, but at the University of Florida, this that wasn't the case where the faculty said we did what we did when I was there. But but but it wasn't. But but it really matters to the students, the student body, the faculty stand up and push their leadership to, to take appropriate position, that, you know, debate is allowed on campus. That's what campus is about. Education is about. It's about unlearning some of the stuff that you thought was true and learning new things. and I haven't been able to do that. I have not. And I think it's because the the leadership of those universities, again, is, are the leaders, not leadership. are more loyal to their donors and to their students and faculty. And that is just a huge problem. Right? And it's leading to the erosion of, of free speech in a, in a serious way. I mean, this is this is, very reminiscent of, of the Red scare, of the the various red scares. I mean, it is this sort of persecution of, intellectuals, you know, chilling of free speech and attack on, on, on people's right to, to criticize the unjust and immoral and illegal actions of their government, which is something we've seen over, over time. you know, with the attacks on Julian Assange and, you know, this, this whole, you know, it's it's a trend. But, I mean, this is a new a new low, you know. Well, it's another front. And another front is clearly a. War on, on, on free speech, on free thought, on the ability to challenge this neo liberal ordering on, I'm sorry, fascist, governance that we see not just here, but, rising throughout the world. It's really it's really quite frightening. and so, yeah. No, no, that is that is true. And, and, it, you know, leads us, I think, to the to another question and the reason the United States and I, we, I know we have some listeners that are out of the country. but it's like, what do we do in November? Right? And, you know, that is an exceptionally challenging question. I mean, I, you know, again, I only because I'm old, there's nothing more than that. But the first vote I ever took was for George McGovern in 1972. I think it was, you know, and since then, I mean, he was the anti-war candidate. He was, you know, stop the war in Vietnam. Nixon won course. what we're talking about here is, sorry to interrupt, but, for for our international listeners, we're talking about the president, the upcoming presidential election between, Donald Trump and Joe Biden. Yeah, the upcoming presidential election, which will be, I think, between Trump and Biden. and, and over the years, we've we those are my family. My we've worked on multiple campaigns and and all this I mean that Donald a lot. But you know, we've done we we we were active whether it was knocking on doors and making phone calls, you know, for for all of them, including my. Yeah. Knowing that, you know, he, he, he was in in 2020. He was not the guy I wish was there. But he was. It when Clinton in 2016 was there, she was not who I wished was there. I mean, she was, she is and remains a neoliberal hot, and but but Trump was concerning more concerning. Yeah. and, you know, I voted for Democrats ever since I could. I was able to vote, you know, I volunteered for every campaign, you know, up until this one, I've done, you know, get out, get out the vote stuff. I've, I, you know, even though electoral ism is has its problems, you know, I nonetheless, for the sake of harm reduction, you know, about it. And I think both of us have, so that makes what we're going to go into here, it should put it into a context of we're pragmatists. Yeah. I mean, we're here. My, my, I wish there was a different option. You know, I, I mean, I, I mean, I know there are third parties, but given the way that the voting structure, the voting structure, the United States works, it makes a third party, win near impossible. First of all, because it's very difficult to get on the ballot in all 50 states. And the reason it's hard to get in the ballot in all 50 states is because you've got to have a certain number of signatures. And over the years, the legislatures in the states have made it more and more difficult to get candidates on the ballot, to say nothing of the fact that, it's harder and harder to vote. The legislatures, primarily Republican in this case, have made it more and more challenging to even vote, no matter for who you want to vote, right? Closing down a poll, polling sites, making it illegal. Illegal? I mean, how absurd is this to provide water or snacks, even free? Yeah. To people who are standing in line hour after hour after hour waiting to vote. And of course, and of course, and of course, where are the long lines? The long lines exist in areas where there's primarily working class and people of color black, brown, etc.. working class white folks because. Right. The, the, the leadership and certainly the Republican Party and this is primarily a Republican issue. They've done this does not want everybody know. They have explicitly stated they do not want everybody to vote. When more people vote, they lose. Right. and then, of course, there's the Electoral College, which, which, which ensures that, even if you win the popular vote, you may not get the presidency. So we're in a difficult position and the, you know, one called who, professor at the University of History, University of Michigan, Middle Eastern history president, Professor Greg, writes the podcast Informed Consent, wrote a piece on this not long ago, which I found just just not what I thought he said, you know, I'm a grown up, I'm a I'm a grown up. I'm an old guy. He said, I'm a grown up. You know, when he basically sort of said, I'm an old guy, I'm a grown up. I know that I'm not going to agree with the candidate or anybody on everything. I know that's the case. but I do have red lines. And he said, my red line is genocide. And, you know, imagine if you imagine that. I mean, it's not just that Biden broke promise after promise, right? Medicare for all, or at least a Medicare for all option for giving loans for, student loans. it's not just that, you know, the, the, the, the moneys that were supposed to be the checks that were supposed to flow to people who had been laid off or, you know, had lost money because of Covid. It's it's I mean, all of those things matter that he broke those promises. Yes. just like Obama broke the promise that he made. The first thing I'll do when I'm elected is codify Roe v, Roe v Wade. Abortion rights. I mean, it wasn't that important. Yeah. And and now, of course, we see the issues with women whose right, you know, to choose just how their body will be used is then taken from them. but but but it's it's I mean, those are all bad enough. They, they all they're, they're really very bad. But yeah, to not just support but but engage in genocide. I just I have an exceptionally difficult time thinking how it would be possible to vote for, much less worked for that man again, which again last election we did. Mitch. Platonic. Mitch. Platonic is a, impressive guy, I think a historian. He wrote with Mark Lamont Hill the book except for Palestine and Mitch in a piece he wrote that I read recently. You know, again, he's extremely bothered by all this. And he and he takes a slightly more nuance. take on all this. And he says, you know, if you live in a state that's solidly blue, vote for anybody except vote for who you want to, right? Obviously he's talking to progressives. It's not going to be there. It's not going to be a fascist to. But he he says, but if you're in a state like I am in Florida, you have to really think that carefully. Because notwithstanding and again, I know this is a difficult this is a difficult argument to make and I'm not sure I'm right. But notwithstanding, I can say that and I can't say notwithstanding by the support of general, how can I say essentially. But yeah, you know, despite Biden's support of genocide, I do think in multiple ways, a second Trump term would be would potentially be worse. Why do I say such a thing? I think the people he would put in charge. Would be even worse than that. Then, then who he did the last time, I think in terms of and certainly in terms of environment, the environment, women's rights, etc., that is gone. It may even be it may even be true that it's that fascist. And I use that term not in a pejorative manner. I believe that's the least. That's the way he leans. comes to power, I'm not sure, but that he would destroy what's left. What little is left of the the remnants of American democracy. I that doesn't, that I'm still not sure everyone that I know, my wife included your. And, you know, my friends, but you. But you have to vote for you. Just have to. And and, you know, I, I, I certainly would never presume to tell anybody what to do, but I have to tell you, it's it's extremely difficult. It's not it's not that I would vote for Trump. It's not nothing like that at all. And then, of course, there's all the down ballot people here. We, we have for I mean, you know, those I mean, we supported Fetterman, when we were still in Pennsylvania. And that guy has turned out to be an absolute thug. Look, you know, I mean, so, okay, so, as a counterpoint to that opinion, I want to present you with this one, by, And I'm not to. I can't give you an exact quote. I listened to it. It was an interview with, Professor Assad Abu Khalil. and, he's a Lebanese American. you've heard of it? I heard, I heard I heard this in the interview. yeah, I know this guy. I think he's very smart. and I think he makes some really good points, to me, and, and that is essentially. Well, so what he ended with was don't let your, you know, what he would say to to people, to the voters. is that don't let your, your aversion to Trump, rule, you know, keep you from. In effect, punishing Biden. you know, we here's my thought process, and I am deeply conflicted about this. I really am. and that is, and this follows on some of what he was saying, the professor is that, you know, we to some extent accept this, you know, idea of lesser evil and harm reduction and, and, and that is valid. however, what? You know, I have two lines with this one, one part on the on the one side, we have, you know, the the fact that, Americans will some Americans, some segment of Americans will undoubtedly suffer more under Trump. on the other hand, let's say let's take, LGBTQIa plus folks, who are definitely in worse shape under Trump. There's really no question about that. how much worse how much of it is actually bipartisan, secretly, whatever. You know, setting that aside, it would be worse under Trump. However, what about, what about gay people in Palestine? Do they not deserve lives? How much suffering if you put on the one hand, on the one column, Americans, suffering, and the indignities, the attacks, the the, the the the assault on their rights, you know, let's let's say this gay marriage, for example, worse than every gay person and, losing gay marriage, worse than every gay person in Gaza being exterminated, you know, being wiped off the face of the planet or trans rights to, to use whatever bathroom that they want more important than Gazans rights to draw air, to not be tortured to death, not be ripped limb from limb, to not be, trapped under rubble. how many gay lives have Gazans matter? and and what about everybody else to all the other. I mean, how many people have to die for Americans to have it marginally better? And is that worth it to me? I'm sorry, but the question is not a question. nobody Trump even in the worst, you know, Trump is not going to do to America what Biden is doing to Gaza. maybe Trump will continue doing what Biden is doing. Probably, however, he's not going to commit genocide in the US. He's just not it's not going to happen. I mean, give me a break. He doesn't have that kind of support. Nobody does. However that is happening to Gazans. They are being exterminated. Israel is waging a war of extermination on the Palestinians and specifically the focal point is Gaza. But it is all over, and they want to kill every one of them. And Joe Biden supports them in that murderous, intention. Not only does he support it not only out of a sense of realpolitik, in other words, you know, doing it to further America's standing in the U.S and to serve his donor class. He also opposes, I mean, you know, he he also, supports it because he is fundamentally a racist, hateful, evil, deeply evil person. and for me, there's no question, none whatsoever. If I had a choice between voting for Hitler or Himmler, which vote is not for a Nazi? I'm sorry. Pass. Hard pass. I will not vote for a Nazi. I will not vote for genocide. And here's the other side. So on the one hand, we have how much our American lives are American troubles and difficulty and suffering. Suffering? Yes. how many lives are those more important than than the lives of an entire people? On the one hand, Palestinians versus American discomfort, that's one side. On the other side, we have what will happen going forward from here. Now, if we accept as a premise, as a people, if we accept the premise that the lesser of two evils will commit a genocide, that is, if nothing else, you know, every bit as bad, as what the Republicans want to do. Because I'm sorry, but Biden's support of Israel has been unconditional. And not only has he been unconditionally supporting, he has pushed them forward. He has encouraged them. He has lied for them. He has supplied them with weapons above and beyond with the rest of our evil, immoral government. Will do. wanted to do even like didn't and run around Congress. And Congress is as pro-Israel as everything else. you know so for me and and this is what I think about I don't think about Trump. I think about the guy after Trump, I think about the guy after that and the guy after that. If Democrats, we have one party that is wholesale for genocide, they say it out loud. They say, kill them all. That is what they say. I mean, you hear the Republicans say it every time, and they make no qualms about. However, on the other hand, we have the Democrats. and if both sides if, if the baseline, you know, like, for example, in America, we have come to accept that, that we may need to vote and we I have made this this decision myself in the past when I voted for Biden, last election, my, my calculus was neither of these people are going to support, universal health care or Medicare for all or any even substantive reform, both of them. So we've accepted that the lesser evil can and does not, support Medicare for all or universal health care. That's, a given. Right? We accept that that is something we may have to swallow, and we may have to just vote for a Democrat that doesn't support this thing that is fundamental and important. And however, now we take that acceptance and we transpose that to genocide. The worst thing. What does that mean going forward? Well, if Biden can get away with committing a genocide and still get reelected and people just accept it and no one would find, you know, whatever, you know, he's better than Trump. Well, what's to keep Trump from being worse? And then the next Democrat from doing yet another genocide? And where will the next genocide be? Will it be Yemen? Will it be Iran? Will it be Russia? Where is the next one going to be, and how long before it gets back here? If we accept now the premise that a lesser evil can commit genocide, genocide can be less evil than other genocide, then. Then what does that mean? What does that mean for us? What can we do? How how will we. Ever escape this pattern? what? When when will it end? Who is enough? Is it is it only enough? Once they, come and start doing it here? Is it only enough once they've done it to Mexicans? But. But not gay people or or, you know, not the poor, not all the poor, but just just some of the poor. or or when they're exterminating people at the borders here, you know, maybe that's okay. That's the lesser evil, but but exterminating, you know, rest of us, I mean, that's that's not we'll just vote for the lesser evil thereto, and on and on and on. This ratchet only tightens. It only goes one way. The right drags us to the right, the Democrats, the left. which is not the left. They are a neo conservative ideology. You know, I mean, okay, they they wear a rainbow flag, but that's it. It ratchets and only goes one way. We only become more genocidal. We only become more evil when we accept that Biden can do this. This is my mind. And I don't pretend to speak for anybody else. Not you. I can't, because I'm deeply conflicted about this. I will not blame somebody for voting for Biden if they come to this election. They say, God, I just can't do it, I hate Trump, I get that, I hate Trump, too. But but for me, in my mind, I will not be complicit in genocide. Ever. There is no calculus of American discomfort that makes genocide okay. And to allow him to do this, to make the lesser evil the baseline to be genocide. Then what happens next? Where does it end? And it doesn't? That's the thing. It doesn't end. It never ends. Because once people start doing it once, it's okay. Once it's accepted. And this is what we talk about normalization. This is the normalization. We have normalized American imperialism. We've normalized invading countries that didn't do anything. We've normalized lying and just accepting it, you know. Oh, and Trump does it. It's flying. And when Biden does it it's oh it's just an unfortunate circumstance. No. We've accepted so many things. And this is a turning point. This is this is not just one other little discomfort. And I don't mean to say that that not having universal health care over our barrack prison system, the all of the things that we take for granted that can be part of that lesser evil, right now, I'm not saying that those aren't important. but genocide is something else entirely. It is a whole other level, and it is a level that we do not return from. You don't see societies that start doing genocides, democratically reform themselves into, into being good. I'm not even sure that democratic reform can ever work in any in on the grand scale in the US that, a presidential election could bring true change. I'm not sure that that will ever work, but we have to fight to stop genocide. And if that means that I have to hold my nose and not vote for Biden, I will do it. And I'm in. I'm in a swing state. I make no equivocation about the fact that I will not vote for that man. And I'll tell you one more, one more thing. So we have those two avenues that go into my thinking on the subject. And there's a third. And that is that, The. We, you know, we have a like, a moral responsibility as well, in my mind, just, something that if we take part in, in it, it stains us. it is, an abhorrent thing. think about, what would you have done, during the Civil War? you know what? The American Civil War, to end slavery is slavery abhorrent? Is slavery an absolute evil, a black mark? on the on the morality of a human being that cannot be erased. I believe that it is. I think that I will not tolerate slavery, and I will not tolerate genocide and will not be complicit. I won't help it. I won't, tacitly accept the premise that American lives are more important than gods and lives. They are. People are humans. They are our brothers and sisters. Save. But for, as my mother would say, an accident of of geography being born here and not there, they are made of the same flesh and blood as us. They are or could be us, you, me, anybody. There is no one ethnicity of people that is inherently more important than another. No human life is more important than another. less. It's the life of a fascist or a Nazi or genocide or. I'm sorry, but those lives are on a different level. But, But as far as a baby born into this world, there's nothing separating you or me from being a guardian other than where we were born. And none of us deserve to be exterminated or eradicated. The Jews did not deserve it, nor the communists, nor the socialists know the gay people, nor the, you know, people with disabilities that were exterminated in the, the, the Holocaust, the first Holocaust. Because this is the second Holocaust. This is it. Here. What would you have done if you were in, In such difficult times? Because you are in those times and and, when you accept that, that you've got a vote for Hitler because Himmler's work is worse. That's. No, that's no choice at all to me. So that's my thinking. I don't, I think that I think that we have to stick up for him as a pragmatist. I, I would rather see. I would rather suffer through, four years of Trump, than than deal with Biden. and there's one thing I remember where I was going with, when Biden commits a genocide, have, you know, all the liberals, all the people who have been indoctrinated by the media, by the Democratic Party apparatus, the propaganda machine, CNN, NBC, they all cheer it on when Trump put, you know, like when Biden puts kids in cages, both the right and the, you know, both the Republicans and the Democrats are all for it because the Democrats, they're like, yeah, whatever. You know, great. He's doing it. It's fine. It's Biden, it's fine. At least when a Republican does it, all the libs get mad about it. If Trump was doing this, they would all be upset. so I would rather have Trump doing it, frankly, because at least there is a base of opposition. in that case, you know, so so what would you rather have, would you rather have all of the Democrats united behind genocide, or at least to the Democrats being forced to pretend that they don't support it? Because that's the that's the choices that we face. Well, I think you raise, a number of intriguing and important points and so that podcast that you referred to, and the opening of your comments, I heard as well, and he basically said, although the more and more elaborate way and I, I'm saying it now, but he basically said is maybe the, maybe a country deserves the government. They did. That's what he said. And, you know, he said, I think, he's a women's rights matter a great deal to me. choice matters. But is that more important in the lives of, Palestinians then? Then and genocide. And he did that several comments. And I, I, I think his is right. He was conflicted as well as clearly you are asking me I am I trying to think of this thing to think of this time in historical put it in some historical context. I mean, first of all, this is not the second genocide, Holocaust. And the, sorry, Holocaust and the Holocaust and the Nazis perpetrated on the Jewish people wasn't the first Holocaust. I mean, there's there's there's been more than 1 million times that we consider consider modern, at least, you know, the probably the first Holocaust is what the Germans do to the, people in what is now Namibia. the second Holocaust is probably, yeah. In that in the Belgian Congo with Prince Leopold. Does, King Leopold, sorry does to the Congolese, which is just, just horrific that the, the book to read on that is King Leopold's Ghost by, I'd forgotten the guy's name. Kingsley. If you if the if the listeners Google to find it is worth reading, you know and then and then of course, what the United States did, what we did to the Native Americans, is also, other the term didn't exist. Holocaust slash genocide, but but clearly that's what we did. so so this is this is humans do do this. And, I'm not, I'm not I'm not saying it doesn't make it better or good, but humans do do this. It's been done. and, you know, and, of course, this is also the result of the, Hutu, Tutsi, in Rwanda, genocide that famously, Bill Clinton refused to call it genocide because, well, we'd have to do something if we called it a genocide. How far we have come. Yeah, yeah, but but in terms of the in terms of a sort of what we should do a to or at least how I think about that. Yeah. You know, I cannot but think of the last election Germany had before Hitler took absolute power. and, and in that at that time, there's the Social Democratic Party, the Communist Party of Germany, the Social Democratic Party of Germany, and, and because of this rift in the left wasn't all Stalin's fault, but Stalin played a big part, know, to to vote for the to vote with the Social Democrats. You were voting for social fascists. They were just as bad fascists now as the Nazis were. Was the the mantra at the time clearly not the case. Clearly not the case. I mean, they were not Nazis. They were social Democrats. They were different. They were not, you know, extermination. and so by battling with one another, this allowed, in a certain way the rise of of Hitler. And then as soon as Hitler took power, of course, there was the Reichstag fire, there was the Enabling Act. And the enabling Act basically allowed Hitler to rule by decree clause nine. So there's there's another take, right? So there's two takes on, what happened? One is that, is that that happened, that it was the election. and I think that that is a valid and reasonable take. there is another, and that is that the Social Democrats, were to blame for not, taking an entirely different tact and that the, the Nazis were posed poised sorry to take over no matter what happened in that election and that the path of organized resistance was what was necessary in that moment, to stop them. And the fact that, in fact, the fault was not, the fault lay still with the, the Communist Party, however, in some sense, that was however, that was because they, they were not willing to step outside of the law, in order to, to oppose the Nazis in the kind of way that they needed opposing by that point, the. Social, the social, the Social Democrats. the Social Democrats and the communists were not basically, the communists weren't willing to pick up arms yet. They had been there had been street brawls. There had been, even there had been very violent confrontations, mostly on the Nazi side. but there had been clashes in the streets, between them, however, unlike the Nazis, the communists were unwilling to break the status quo and to fully engage, in armed struggle against the Nazis. Now, at that point, the reason I say this, the perhaps the election was not so important. is that at that point, the way the Nazis took over, actually, in some ways mirrors the way Christianity emerges in the Roman, in the Roman Empire. and I don't mean that in the sense that the ideologies were the same. However, in this sense, they set up a shadow government. So for every in other words, for every mayor, there was a Nazi mayor, for every, you know, governor, whatever. You know, I don't know what the positions were called on Germany, but on every level of the government, in every administrative, space, there was a mirror inside the Nazi Party. and when the time came, they just moved over and they took it over. And that's actually how the Christianity became the dominant religion in, in the Roman Empire. Good, bad, whatever. And that doesn't matter. that tactic of being ready to to just seize power no matter what happened with the election, that that, and they were poised they had already done that. It was done. It was it was set up and it was ready to roll. and, the alternative take was that it was not the election or losing or winning the election because they would have done it, period. Win lose. Otherwise they would have taken power because they had already set up this, this system, this bureaucratic system, the shadow government, to just occupy the place of all these things. And there was the, you know, the way it shook out, there was this vague aura of legality that, you know, Hitler got elected and then you passed some stuff and whatever. But but, the alternate take is just that, that that, these guys were doing it. It was happening. It didn't matter what happened with the election. And the fault was not in not voting and voting this way or that way and not uniting. And I do think that there's no reason that they shouldn't have, voted against them. But, in this line of criticism, it's that their, their unwillingness to pick up arms and to basically break the law, to break the status quo, of of ostensible legality, which the Nazis were not adhering to. they would, you know, go in and they had no problem breaking up Communist meetings. They had no problem bashing people's heads together. they had no problem, using weapons to kill people, and to wipe out the communists. I mean, don't forget Holocaust. The first people to go into the camps for the communists. and then the Social Democrats, and then the trade unionists and. Well, the I mean, I do know that that we're not there. Don't get me wrong. No, we're not. And no, no, no, I again know it's. So I mean. I, I do I do agree. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to derail you. I do agree that there's, there is some parallels, but. There are right. Maybe but just just maybe. Sorry to continue with what you were saying, but But my understanding of that history, though, is not to the Communist Party of Germany was not willing to take up arms. Quite the opposite. They had armed groups that were actively battling it. but but I think that was a two track. It was a two track plan at that point. And again, it's not it wasn't just the Stalinist, it wasn't just the KDP. It was also the Social Democratic Party had a role in this. But but despite doing battle with one another, even though neither of them were perhaps the optimal, I don't know, optimal for it. You know, if you if you look to see what Hitler had said, you'd say, man, this guy's and and. Yeah, and that's the point. That's the that's the when I look at this, that's the point I take from from Trump when you look to see what this guy says, I mean, he is not he is nowhere near as smart or thoughtful as Hitler was. Right? I mean, I that's a horrible thing to say, I guess. But but yeah, but Hitler at least had sort of, coherent thought, even though it was horrific and deadly and violent and racist. Yeah. Trump I don't know what Trump is mean. He's I don't know, I'm not qualified to give him a social psychiatric diagnosis, but the guy's a sociopath because there's something I don't know what is, but what's concerning is the people that he will bring into his government who are smart and right wing and potentially, anti-democratic. That's the that's the key. I think we can assume that they are anti democratic. I think that they have they have shown their their colors pretty. Yeah. Yeah. I would even say yeah. still doesn't. Where, where does that leave us in November for the election. And I mean that is a question that people will have to answer for themselves. Yeah, I frankly, I, I, I vacillate, I mean, I really vacillate. It's not I mean, it's not, it's not, it's not me. It's my kids and my nephews and my grandkids. And I'm worried I will be dead in another something like 10 to 15 years, if I'm lucky. You know. And what? Whatever we can do, I can do to make things that much better. We do it in the time we've got left. But it's your generation and the next generation that I'm concerned for and I mean, the points you make, I think are important points. it's not possible in just in my mind to just talk them away. Yeah. and but I, but I do think that it's if Trump does win the election, if he doesn't go to jail, if he does get elected, if he does form a government, if he, does put people in power who have no respect for, legal process, right? I mean, whatever the faults of the people in his government the last time around, several of them, several of them stopped this, this man from sort of following his nose in terms of perpetrating violence on the American people. so I, I, I do think it's, it's it is a challenge to make the decision. I mean, you know, Cornel West is the guy who I think the most highly of Jill Stein, I think very highly of. Yeah. they are not going to win. Okay. Full stop. and, and and in a state like Florida, which, which, you know, by needs to win, the Democrats need to win for sure. Going down the list, going down the, from president ignoring the president and I, I would I will vote for the Dems even though all of them, you know, are not my kind of people. They're just not that way too conservative. But the whole issue of presidential candidate is, I'm still struggling with it. I just I'm struggling with it. but I but I, you know, I have kids and grandkids and, and, you know, their lives are not. I mean, I love them to death, don't misunderstand me. But their lives are not worth any more than the kids in Gaza without a doubt. I want to punish. By, I mean politically, I mean the other one. Yeah. All right. Right. Oh, no, no, no, I mean, I'm not I'm not a violent person. I mean, we have. To say that. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And and yeah, I don't, but I agree it's true. I mean, I am not a boat person. Right. But but but but he needs to be punished for this. This is what he's done is is unequivocally wrong face political. And that is. Yeah, face political consequences. and so and so it may well be that, that the only thing to do is to, so believe in life or, you know, just remain, committed, and then go down the list, or to vote for, to vote for a third party candidate, even though voting for a third party candidate, it's never going to win. I mean, it sends a message, but we run the risk of of this guy who is a literal, I think, who is assuming fascist leaning and is surrounded by literal, literal fascists. Right. Literal. That's right. Yeah. coming into power and coming into power of, you know, of extremely powerful military and nuclear weapons and so forth and so on. And God knows, you know, Trump has already said what he would do to the Palestinians in Gaza. He said, you know, go in and mom down, wipe them out. We he he made it clear that that's what he would do. So it's the this is a challenge. This is a challenge. We you know, we're 320 million damn people. And the best we can do are 280 year old idiots. I mean, really, you know, I remember as a young guy that the United States would make fun of the Soviet Union because of their German to cratic, leadership and look. And now look at us. I mean, look at us. And, you know, obviously, it's not that being young is equates with being thoughtful or progressive. I mean, look at, Holly, for God's sake. look at, cotton, Senator Cotton or Holly or Senator Holly. You know, it's not, but, one would sort of like to believe that there are in the United States, in our broad country, people, men, women, way more thoughtful, way more progressive, way more forward thinking than. And Biden or Trump or Kamala Harris. I mean, it's just it's breathtaking. It's just breathtaking. How how the poor choices we have and what's supposed to be. I don't think we are the world's premier democracy. this is this is what we've got. This is. So this is it's just it's just a real. Problem. Yeah, it's a problem. I would I would say, let me add something. I, I think that, no matter what, I don't think that people should stay home. I don't, I, I can understand how all this is dispiriting. However, your local elections do still mean stuff. Yes. So. So no matter what you do with the president, don't let it discourage you from being involved in in picking the sheriff and the mayor or whatever. You know, I don't know what's on the ballot. Sure, but, but go go and have your say whether or not you know, no matter what you choose to do. and I'm, I'm certainly amenable. I mean, I, I hear you and like, I was, you know, you asked me a month ago, I was pretty much there. That's, and and, you know, like, I, you know, I vacillate too. I would say, here's what I, in my ideal world, and I think this would make a very different election. if if this could happen, I would. I want, every person, who, you know, wants to vote for Biden. I mean, I or Trump, right? Whatever. You know, but I mean, speaking to our listeners, I doubt very much if many of them are Trump supporters. I mean, I don't know, but, I wish I could take every liberal and make them watch. five minutes of videos from Gaza. go put them on, watch have them watch Iron Palestine or even Al Jazeera, you know, and, and just spend a good five, ten minutes, watching and after that, then make the decision. I don't, the thing that I see from from Democrats, from the, you know, that I know is, is that the ones who just are like, oh, well, things are better under, under Biden. you know, I'm better off than I was four years ago. Whatever. You know, line they're parroting now, is that they haven't looked and they don't want to look and they don't want to see. They don't want to be faced with the hard, the hard, hard choice that is in front of them. they don't want it to be real. they want to believe that. That, Biden's hands are tied and and, and, and and but I think that once people see that, I think we would have a very different election, even if all everybody Republicans who were forced to look and see what is happening with their own eyes, because that's what changed, you know, I mean that that's what drives me. That's what I think about every time, you know, I mean, even better yet, if they knew somebody, you know, you know, I've told you about, that family that I was, you know, my friends over in Gaza, actually, they gave me something to, to read, which I'll do some point here. you know, they, I had a bad day yesterday. Not as bad as theirs. you know, they they, they were telling me they they're going to they did, leave Rafah. They were in Rafah, you know, they had been displaced down to to, to Rafah, and they were going to leave Rafah and go, you know, go back north. even though it's they're not allowed to not allowed, and it's not safe to, because they were worried that, Israel was going to attack Rafah, which they did, this morning, and last night. And, you know, the so they made it out, early in the nick of time, speaking that I had their GoFundMe. It's just one family. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Five bucks to throw. It's hard to. Know. We should, we should, we should put those on. And the other the other. We should put an eye on Electronic Intifada. Yes. their website out as well, because those are some, Rethinking Palestine is another one. there's some extra superb, podcasts that that people can go to to be to keep up to date on what's going on here. anyway, so this will we will see what happens as time goes on. But I think we are in a very precarious position, as a country. very precarious position. Yeah. And, certainly our brothers and sisters in Palestine are suffering the most right now and deserve our support. the, when the the march or the the is a secular, democratic state with equal rights for all. And if we need to have some special minority rights to protect folks by God, that can be done to it's not going to be you or me that does that. But but I think that's that's that's all that's left. There's no two state option left. Israel has ensured that the Palestinians are not going to go anywhere. and it's going to be a state to be an apartheid state or a democratic secular state. That's all. Those are the only possibilities. And I, I suspect, you know, knowing what I know about history path, I might go for a while. They might be able to hold it together for a few years, even decades, but it'll fall apart. It's like it already is falling apart. And and, you know, I've, I've dear friends in Israel who, Closer than won't talk to me anymore. because unfortunately, they are the sort of they support their government and what they're doing, they cannot see any further than that. But it's a little it's it's sad. These are, I mean, so good people. These are bad people. It shouldn't be like this. Yeah, but to too. I mean, yeah, that's, All we can do is keep pushing. And the push we'll have to make is, is to get Biden to stop supporting Israel with weapons and money, to get Biden to support the, the, resolutions of the UN and stop the fighting and bring aid in. And that can figure out a way to, to either have a two state or a single state solution. But it's occupation and the genocide. Yeah, yeah. you know, my most sincere hope. And maybe this is a pipe dream. I got what I really want, more than anything, is, Love it so much easier if Biden would just knock it off. Just stop. And, you know, like, my God, if you would just heed the warnings, you know, we did this whole, un, you rattled the saber at him by, by doing, you know, that this, un, uninformed, uncommitted. Uncommitted. Yeah, yeah. You know, and we, I mean, I was part of that in Wisconsin. We, you know, basically in the Democratic primary voted for nobody, you know, it marked the uncommitted or uninformed or un whatever. and instructed it was in Wisconsin and really, and, and, and, I mean, we got way more than we got double the margin that he beat Trump by last time. of people, you know, he could very well lose Wisconsin. so we. The same is true in Michigan. Yeah. the same is true in Michigan. And he the number of, uncommitted or whatever the term was they used was stick was just significant. But he has ignored those. yes, he does. He has ignored them. I hope I hope that it sinks in and he just, you know, or something. And if you just. God, that would be so much easier if you could just. Well, I mean, supposedly from. From what? From what? From what I've read. And there are numbers of people close to him who are opposed to what he's doing. The only question I ask is, why then haven't you resigned? Why haven't you resigned, Brett McGurk? Why haven't you resign? I mean, one of them. Did and others this State Department got more than one has done that first. And woman, I forgotten her name, but, but folks from the State Department have resigned. But, no, I mean, really, in his cabinet advisors. that's the only thing that might get this. They might get him to change his mind. Is the threat of that. let's, And then articulate. Oh. I'm sorry. Go ahead, go ahead. No, no. That's all. It's just not happened. Let's articulate, since we are, since we analyze and prognosticate and, and recommend and, you know, let's, let's lay out, because, I mean, I'm thinking enough people do this, what what is what is fundamentally the demand? What could, you know, people talk about? Oh, his hands are tied. You can't control, you know, let's respond to that one because it is a common criticism. you know, the idea that Biden is powerless to stop, the, what could he do to, you know, tomorrow, if you woke up and it's like Scrooge's heart was changed, you know, you know what, what what are the actions you could take right now? What could our government do more broadly? what do we want to have happen? well, I mean, his hands are not tied, and he ties his own hands, right? I mean, when he wanted to go and send weaponry to Israel without going through Congress, he did it. He just did. So. So what could Biden do? So what is it? The question is, what's the central issue that needs to be resolved to allow us to begin to correct the flaws in our government? And I believe I could be wrong, but I believe that that one of at least one of the central issues is campaign campaign finance reform, right? You can't do campaign finance reform without a Supreme Court that is going to that will allow it. So he could tomorrow enlarge the Supreme Court by something between 3 and 5, get him approved, get him there. And it's you know, it's not packing them. You can call it packing the court. I think what the what the Republicans have done is pack the court. But there's that there's district courts and there's usually one for each district. There's one Supreme Court judge. So there's there's a negative balance of something like 3 to 4. I can't quite remember right now. But he could do that. That's one thing. He could do it. It's got the Senate do it right now. And that would allow the campaign finance reform. That would also allow the whole issue of, getting, choice through and not suppressed by the, the Supreme Court. That would also allow him to, if he wanted to, to push all sorts of progressive legislation that would that the Supreme Court would, take out, given the structure they've got right now. And if they in fact will, ranging from voting and voting rights to, Joe is, you know, is is Trump and not, complicit in his own crimes because he was president? I mean, crazy stuff. But he could do that. He won't do that. He hasn't done. Yeah. And I don't think he will do it. So we're, so, you know, but it is absolutely possible we're see a an FDR. He's not an FDR. He's not he's not even a Bernie Sanders. I mean, clearly not Bernie Sanders. Yeah. And Bernie Sanders isn't all that. Right. And what more would we like? We would like him to stop funding Israeli genocide. I mean, stop I mean, this didn't start on the 7th of October. Anyone who's read anything about the Middle East, who knows anything knows that. And there are people around him who know, who know this. And I'm sure I've said this to this is 85 to 100 year old process of ethnic cleansing that's been going on. You know, it is. It is. I mean, I don't care what the Bible says. I do not care. It doesn't mean anything to me. I mean, you know, I mean, whatever. Yes. The Bible says that there were these guys, this land was Jewish land 3000 years ago. I mean, you know, you want to come back, you come back, can you come back to. And it's a democratic, secular state. They don't kick people out. You don't take their homes, you don't make them third class citizens. You don't kill them. You don't keep them uneducated. You don't, you don't you don't, keep roads. They can't use sidewalks. They can't walk on. You don't do that. You think you're God special people. I'm sorry. Which God? Who's God? No. The Jewish people are a remarkable people. I mean, there's there's things that have been done by that, by that, by that group, by the Jewish people that are breathtakingly wonderful. Yes. Breathtakingly wonderful. This is not one of them. And so we would say to him, stop and stop now, right. A whole bunch more. I mean, we, you know, we could talk, maybe we talk about another time, but you know what I mean? We do not talking about health care in a while. We don't have a rational health care system, but we just said, whatever it is, $64 million. I, by the way, borrowed $64 billion to send to Ukraine in some amount to take Israel. But we don't have money for a national health system. I mean, I've got patients who can't afford their insulin, notwithstanding what Biden says about what's just been passed in $35. It's, you know, nonsense. We we have an education system is falling apart, roads, we have no transport. We have people who are homeless. There are things we need to do for our people. I'm not saying disengage from the world. I'm saying get serious. You know, our country is falling apart right? And and it's not MAGA thugs versus the good guys. There are plenty of people who voted for Trump who are, I think. Rightfully angry at what they see around them. Rightfully angry. I'm not talking about racists and so forth. I mean, material racism is what the material conditions are. We? We have betrayed our working class. We have betrayed them. It's wrong. And we and this needs to be resolved and it can be resolved. It won't be, but it can be. so anyway, that's, that's a good that's a great. Job, I love it. I that's exactly that's exactly it. I mean, sanction them. Stop sending them money. address the issues that we have at home. you know, yeah. Work together. I mean, we we got the issue. That's the, the existential issue for us is the climate emergency. And yeah, it's true, Biden's done some, but not enough. Oh, that that needs to be addressed. We will. I mean, we may die. We'll be gone. I'll be dead before this happens. But you my grandkids, may not survive in a way that we would like to see them survive. Yeah. This can be fixed, but we have to act. And we are not acting. No. That's all. Yeah. Anyway, on that note. On that note. Another, another, another hour and a 20 minute podcast. We did it. We did it again. Oh, man. You think? Thank you so much, Uncle Joe, for, for talking with me. I just, you know, I love it. I value these, discussions very much. And it's. I'll meet you. This is. It's good. I'm glad we did this. I want to keep doing this. And next time we can talk, we should probably talk a little bit more about, comparative health stuff. This. But there's just this plenty. There's plenty to talk about now. Yeah. So, Okay, man. All right. Love you, Uncle Joe. Yeah. Thanks, man. Thank you. See, I take care.